New Orleans has officialy become HELL...Anarchy crisis rises

Somewhat terrifying how barbarous and lawless mankind can suddendly get as soon as the civilization breaks down...

Anarchy is America's near future. Take that to the bank!

Cubase, I respect you and all, but what do you know about this? And how would you feel if I took an Australian national crisis as an excuse to belittle it? Terribly bad taste.

This is bad news all the killing and abuse in a city in the U.S.

Imagine a crisis in one city and imagine a crisis in all of the world.

Maybe the end is near

Jerry Dan, you have misinterpreted my comments but I understand your defence...

I am not attempting to belittle the US, or its people. I know for a fact that the US is a great country with many great people (many of which are my friends here). I was just very heated when I posted that.... but I will say:

Please understand that when I refer to America in the comments above I refer to the people in charge of the country and NOT its citizens in general. I refer to those who continue to believe Bush is something more than an animal. I refer to the bad folks in N.O. that are making an already horrific disaster all the more harrowing.

I just never thought something so horrific could happen in such a great country at the hands of its own people. This is worse than terrorism, it's bordering on treason. You have folks that, whilst troops are fighting for the countries freedom, choose to contribute to the destruction of what they are trying to protect. I just thought a country so hell-bent on keeping their good way of life in tact would be able to understand value of human life in such a situation. I would have also thoughts that your government could have handeled the situation better...

A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken. After a flood killed six people in 1995, Congress created the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, in which the Corps of Engineers strengthened and renovated levees and pumping stations.

In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the US, including a terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war.

In 2004, the Bush administration cut funding requested by the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for holding back the waters of Lake Pontchartrain by more than 80 percent. Additional cuts at the beginning of this year (for a total reduction in funding of 44.2 percent since 2001) forced the New Orleans district of the Corps to impose a hiring freeze. The Senate had debated adding funds for fixing New Orleans' levees, but it was too late.

THAT is the part of America that I am spaking ill of. Not it's people, not you and not the American citizens on this board.

Jerry Dan wrote:And how would you feel if I took an Australian national crisis as an excuse to belittle it? Terribly bad taste.

Sorry, but the crisis in the US is no longer nature... it's their own people, and if Australia was disgraced by the same situation I would be disgusted too and would have no means to justify it. I am actually quite taken back that you think I am using this crisis as an excuse for simply badmouthing your country.

Jerry Dan wrote:Cubase, I respect you and all, but what do you know about this?

I have respect for you too, but after asking me a question like that I am finding it very hard to maintain such respect. It concerns me that you would assume that I just started rating for the sake of demeaning Americans. I don't need to… some of you are doing fine enough yourselves. Just because I am not an American citizen, does not mean I don't know nothing about nothing. But when Australians stuck in N.O. have to see helpless survivors gunned down at random, and even have their own lives threatened, it kind of hits close to home don't you think?

Bad taste? Yes, you are right... but its the truth, and that is why it tastes bad.

cubase wrote:I am sorry to say folks, but New Orleans has become HELL, this is ANARCHY in the so called 'greatest country in the world'. A country that can spend billions on the Iraq war, yet supply New Orleans with barely enough (basically no) supllies which has contributed to the growing anger of the remaining residents!

Thanks for your clarification about criticizing the leadership. "...the so-called 'greatest country in the world'"? This is the part I took as belittling the U.S. as a whole. Criticizing a leader is one thing, especially if you think he has bungled something. But you say "country" here, and reminded us that we voted him in office, indirectly implicating every American who voted him in office. It's not time to blame Americans for the natural consequences of depraved human nature. After all, George W. Bush did not cause the hurricane, and he did not rape the 7 year old girl. Animals did this out of the darkness of their own hearts.

Do you realize how much money and how quickly the U.S. donated to the tsunami relief? How much and how quickly have other countries come to our aid? Please don't misunderstand: I'm not blaming other countries for that, or asking for money. But I think the time is more to help the hurting than to point fingers and shake fists. That's all I'm saying.

I most certainly agree. Also try to remember that some people who have a political agenda can twist words and actions for their own purpose. I have already seen Media outlets try to use this for politcal gain. And there are plent of folks in the US media who would love to see Bush shamed, hurt, ect.

I think we all need to remember that darn near no one was taking this thing seriously. The city of NO has lucked out so many times (from passing storms) that an attitude of defiance has grown. When this thing hit a sizeable number of the population was still in the city. You just cant fly in a helo and pick up 150,000+. Frankly I dont think people began to relize the full scope of the devistation until probably wed. By then it far to late or organize massive steps to save them. At this point the majority of the help is probably still another 24-48 hours off. The roads are gone, the city is underwater, the people are out of control, you cant safely enter the city without protection. And no-one gave serious thought that the levys would all fail. With that in mind I just dont see what the goverment can do RIGHT NOW that it isnt already doing. They have a whole fleet on the way, they are trying to get thousands of soldiers at the scene they are flying hundreds of missions by helo to help. I think the numbers are just too high.

Now I might be wrong about this because a lot has changed since I was in the National Guard. (1997) But back then guardsmen were not allowed to carry live ammo for their weapons unless they were activated and under federal control. When the guard gets "called out" its under state control, not federal. So I have to wonder if they are even armed? (with live ammo)

After staying up all night watching news story after news story on this whole ordeal, I've come to the following conclusion. And I'm an american, mind you.

We're just not the good guys anymore.

WWI, WWII ... those were wars I wish had never happened, but all in all were necessary. We fought to protect those who needed and welcomed our help.

Vietnam, Iraq (twice) ... WTF? The people we were helping just assumed we walk off a plank. And why? Because we weren't helping for the sake of humanity, and trying to help those we fought with. We had another agenda in every war after WWII, which was the real agenda, that sat behind the tired old "We're here to liberate these people" line ...

Right now, if you're too dumb to see that we're not in Iraq for oil that we desperately need, without the middleman ... you're probably all embroiled in the Iraq constitution side show staged for the grand purpose to take everyones mind off the oil. You do know american companies are there assessing their potential wealth from these rigs? Do you know how many soldiers protect those strongholds as opposed to keeping the peace?

My point, if I ever was to come to it, is this. Look at New Orleans right now. There are people suffering. Hurting, hungry, and in need of aid. And within those people are people brandishing guns, killing innocents, raping women ... Has America been any different lately? (Vietnam, Iraq, etc... ) Do you see this kind of wanton savgery any where else in the world when there is a major crisis? Any "supposedly" civilized country? More than likely, eventually stories of heroism, and leadership through the crisis will eventually surface, because no way would our image be tarnished like that. Even if we have to make those stories up, we'll see them, because we could never be America the Barbarians to the rest of the world. Bush, when he smiles ... I bet he thinks he's reassuring ...

::sigh:: Am I proud to be an american ... where at least I know I'm free?

If I offend anybody, let me apologize right off. I don't mean you. But when Cubase said "we elected him" ... we may choose to be offended by that statement, but ultimately ... its true ... the majority of the US did, even if I did not. This crisis is being handled on a backburner, because it has no relevance in the main agenda, which over the years, has become something more than helping people. Only when they realized the public outrage at the situation did they decide "Oh, well we better do something ..."

Okay, I'm done. ::breathes out:: ... Try to make sense of some of that.

Sheesh, let's get back to Tex Murphy!

*throws $0.02 in the donation box*

hmm, we have a debate between an American and Australian here. Maybe as a citizen of both countries, i can moderate. ^^

I could get into media and political motivations behind this horrific natuaral disaster but i think i'm going to focus on what scares me the most about this whole situation. Humanity, or rather the lack of it.

See, one of my main core ideals of 23 years on this earth is that people are essentially the same everywhere. I've travelled quite a lot and i've seen different cultures but the people remain the same.

An example of this is here in Australia there is quite an anti-american sentiment among the populous. A lot of that group believe Americans as a people to be pretty stupid (and the kicker is i think they get their ideas from watching Jerry Springer). Working graveyards at a gas station, i can say that there are just as many intelectually devoid individuals in our backyard.

The same goes with nice people, smart people, weird people etc.

I think the only thing that differentiates people around the world is really experience. 9/11 was a horrible tragedy and there are Americans who are still quite sensitive about that topic, especially when it's used to shine negativity on their country or leader (i went back there for uni a couple years back. I ruffled some feathers without really meaning to). The thing is, take maybe a person from Ireland or Isreal. They've had to put up with fighting and terrorism and the whole shebang on more than one occasion for a very long time. They would probably not be so sensitive about it but i still believe as people, they're no different.

Anyways i guess the point i wanted to make was if a disaster like Katrina happened anywhere else in a massively populated area, i have a feeling that we'd be seeing the same things and that scares me. To think that we as humans are so close to throwing morals and values out the window to not only survive, but to satisfy basic animalistic pleasures.

As a footnote, i also believe things like this probably happened in the countries affected by last year's tsunami. It's just you're dealing with a much larger area, more than one country and Fox news isn't so close to home.

On one hand with all the suffering a foot, politics should be left behind.

On the other hand, here's an analogy.

Budget cuts force the closing of a fire station.
House starts on fire.
It takes five minutes longer for an adjacent fire station to respond.
People die.

So, in the aftermath of the destruction of said house, on one hand politics and the deaths of people we care about shouldn't mix, but then again, would they have died if the closer fire station wasn't closed due to said budget cuts?

The point of this is, if there was something that someone could have done to prevent tragedy, but didn't do it, I say fingers should be pointed.

vracar - On one hand, you make a very valid point...

On the other hand, it's hard to take you seriously with that avatar of yours. ^^

The murder capital of American has a looting problem. It really doesn't surprise me that it happened. Sad, but not surprising. It's not the hurricane that caused it either - its the mentality of the people living there. You strike a hurricane in the UK, New York, Paris or elsewhere you would not have had the troubles Cub talks about above.

The thing that I think is just silly is American now calling for international aid because they can't cope. Yet they still have thousands of troops in Afghanistan and Iraq which they won't pull back to save their own country.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not an anti-war guy or anything like that, but if you have problems in your own country, surely you call your own people to sort it out before asking the rest of the world for help.

And as for the US saving the world in WWII, I wouldn't quite put it like that - the US didn't want to enter the second world war and avoided it for as long as they could until Japan bombed them. By the time the US troops arrived in Dunkirk the tide had already turned and we were pushing Jerry back. The US involvement definitely helped and was very much needed, but the US did not save the world.

Help is what they need and I think the list of Nations helping the US is excellent. It will be interesting to see how Bush handles himself in the coming weeks and whether or not he is capable of recognising the joint efforts of the word to help regain composure in the US. Bush seems to want to think he can do this on his own, but I don't think he can. Even the most powerful country in the world can and up on it's knees, and that's what I think he failed to realise for some time.

-Cub.