I'll keep it brief. Promise.

You are right about two things, and not quite right on another as I see it. Obama is a very caring creative individual. I don't think he would make a terrible president. There is nothing to like about John Mccain. There was years ago, but that has all since changed.

The one issue I think you are mistaken about is your assumption that John Mccain is standing for true conservatism. In the thirteen years that you have been following there hasn't been a conservative president, or a conservative mainstream enough for you to get a feel for him or her. Like Barry Goldwater, or Taft.

The problem is a redefinition of the term. The republican party learned a while ago the if you are truly conservative, the federal branch of government doesn't really have that much say in the way things are done. I think that frustrated a lot of them.

Politics have become so corrupt, nothing is said that isn't focus group tested. This means that whatever they are saying is not necessarily what is good for us, but what the majority find it acceptable to hear.

I'm not really getting to any real good point here so I will restate my claim. Let's use the real term. Neo conservative.


This message was brought to you from a Ron Paul guy.

Not to be churlish here but ...

How can you tell when a politician is lying?

Their lips move.

On a more serious note: please remember that when you Americans cast your vote, that vote will affect a lot of things outside your country as well as inside. Take from that what you will.

franton wrote: On a more serious note: please remember that when you Americans cast your vote, that vote will affect a lot of things outside your country as well as inside. Take from that what you will.

On a somewhat related note, the BBC recently conducted a poll of people in 22 countries in all 22 of those countries, among those who actually had an opinion, Obama beat out McCain, substantially in almost every case. The closest was India where Obama beat McCain 24% - 15%.

The relevant information is here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/p ... s_poll.pdf

Scroll down to pages 14-16 for some graphs.

I know that some Americans don't care for attempts by foreigners to sway their elections, but I sincerely hope that Americans do take into account the views of their allies and neighbours when they go to the polls in November. When you're as powerful a country as the US, the decisions of the voters do indeed have an impact on the rest of the world.

In the thirteen years that you have been following there hasn't been a conservative president

I'd like to add we haven't seen an actual Republican in decades. I'm still trying to figure out what happened to the party and its ideals.

Most importantly, I'm still waiting for Thomas Jefferson to come back to this world and give a serious beating to both parties and the institutions.

Frank wrote: Most importantly, I'm still waiting for Thomas Jefferson to come back to this world and give a serious beating to both parties and the institutions.

Amen to that!

I don't really think this is the place for Politics... All it is going to do is bring anger and arguments... Everyone's opinion is going to change and we'll never get a president that is going to please everyone...

Obama may very well be the lesser of the 2 evils, doesn't make him right for the job... There hasn't been a president right for the job in about 50 years... Not saying all past Presidents have been Bad Presidents, just saying there could have been a better person in their shoes...
And when we did have a President that was Right for the Job, what happen??? Anyone??? That's right, the Biased and Selfish Government made certain to get rid of him...
I'm talking about Kennedy for anyone who doesn't know American Political History... After JFK, there hasn't been a Completely Righteous President since...

This country is in a Tight downward Spiral and I don't think either of the candidates have a purposed plan to pull us out of it... We are headed for some dire times ahead for the average American... Those of us who have played the system a bit better/smarter/harder/wiser {pick your term}, will be able to rough the near future a little easier, but it won't be easy for any of us in the long run... For the 98% of Americans who are not the Filthy Rich will endure hard times of one kind or another...

Take AIG for example... Government says they aren't coming to the rescue this time... Think of all the Retired people who have placed their trust and future in AIG to manage their retirement funds and insurance... All of those people could be SOL within the week...
And if AIG goes, who is to say Allstate won't be next or Washington Mutual or {Pick A Large Company}...


I just don't think a 99.8% Civil Community such as this should talk about Politics...

And as Fred said, America has Such an Impact on a majority of the rest of the world... And if we are headed downhill, who can say what will become of most of the Civilized Population... Surely they will/can recover a lot easier than the USA can, but still the Impact of this Biased and Selfish Government will be felt Worldwide...




Okay that is my 2 Cents, you can see the Cashier for a Refund of 50% if you'd like...

How is "The Lesser of Two Evils" not the same as "Right for the Job"?

-Fred

Frank wrote: I'd like to add we haven't seen an actual Republican in decades. I'm still trying to figure out what happened to the party and its ideals.

It could be argued that we haven't seen an actual Democrat in decades, either.

Here's my keepin it brief.

Voted. Contributed. Lost anyway.




I have grave doubts in the integrity of the system. I could go into a long spiel about that...but I won't.

Uh Oh, I'm the only "conservative" (Libertarian) on the board.

Scurries away ...


~Keck

(P.S. I don't like McCain either. I love Obama's Technology plans, but I'm very much opposite on everything else ... )

litlkeck wrote:Uh Oh, I'm the only "conservative" (Libertarian) on the board.

Scurries away ...


~Keck

(P.S. I don't like McCain either. I love Obama's Technology plans, but I'm very much opposite on everything else ... )

No your not pal. Most of my values are libertarian. I just have serious doubts about the libertarian party.


Also, 11 posts in and no one is being a jerk about what they believe. This has to be the most polite and well thought out political discussion in history.

Since we do have a Political Thread going now, I've been wondering what some of your thoughts were on the Palin situation??? I'm referring to the Legal Action that the State of Alaska might take soon, not the entire Republican situation, but if you want to comment on the whole thing, by all means...
According to the McCain Campaign, Palin plans on Blocking the investigation by not speaking to anyone on the matter... She does that for too long and she could be nailed for Impeding An Investigation, along with the Abuse of Power thing {if that part is true}...


I like to consider myself an Independent, so I don't swing one way or another until I've heard all the issues and then I choose based on whoever seems to cover the most of my beliefs/issues at the time...

freepizza wrote:Also, 11 posts in and no one is being a jerk about what they believe. This has to be the most polite and well thought out political discussion in history.

I agree, so far this going very civil... My post above was due to the past threads I've seen and been a part of when it came to Political Views...

GarySogar wrote:

Frank wrote: I'd like to add we haven't seen an actual Republican in decades. I'm still trying to figure out what happened to the party and its ideals.

It could be argued that we haven't seen an actual Democrat in decades, either.

Oh I'm sure you could. I must admit ignorance here, because truth be told I was never entirely sure what democrats exactly stood for in the first place. There's a general fuzziness around the party that keeps me wondering. I mean, you know, in the republican ranks there are still a few old schoolers who manage to speak up now and then and remind us of what the party was before Nixon and especially Reagan, but among the Dems no one ever comes out to play. Do they side with Hamilton or Jefferson on the core issues, or a mix of both? They tend, today, to be very Hamiltonian, but then again they can get a bit isolationist and not too big on the army, a Jeffersonian approach. Do they really aim for a nanny state or is that Republican propaganda?

On Palin, I'll try to stay civil and just say she frightens me a little. I understand the surprise aspect she brought into the campaign but after the media storm there is nothing left but this scary person. I don't say this because of her political affiliations, which she is entirely entitled to, but the general vibe I get from looking in her eyes. I also seriously question the intelligence of party puppeteers and the candidates themselves who assume women will support Palin because she's an alternative now that Hilary is not on the ticket. Because surely those women sided with Hilary because of her sex, not her track record. I feel insulted by this and I'm not even a woman.

What pains me with this election and the general context goes beyond politics though. I know there's been some harsh words, on this board and across the world, on the Bush administration and the US in general, but above all that, I find it so saddening to watch your people in such turmoil and struggle. You are a great, intelligent, generous nation, and I have always, ALWAYS felt welcome every single time I've been visiting the country. The core ideals you stand for are beautiful, and the philosophies at the base of your foundation make me extremely envious. It is such a damn shame that your political and economical elite defiled, shamed and spoiled the republic and turned it into an empire. You certainly don't have the leaders you deserve, regardless of party.

The last half of your last paragraph, Frank. Ditto that sentiment.

-Fred