Unofficial Tex Murphy

Okay a discussion was developing in the Movie Thread and instead of taking that over, I figured we could just talk about it in here and leave the Movie Thread for what it is... Below are the Posts already made in the discussion...

Joel wrote:Just finished re-visiting the Back to the Future trilogy: unbelievable in the way that it is just as thrilling as it was the first time around - no exaggeration. I especially refer to the epic final sequence in 1885 involving the train and the delorian. I knew exactly what was going to happen, but was just as excited. I'm not sure what it is, but the fact that there is minimal reliance on CGI might add to it.

sam10100 wrote:After rewatching the trilogy one big glaring plot hole stands out to me.

P1
The Doc built the time machine in 1985. Okay I'll buy that.

P2
The Doc had to fix the time machine using parts from 1955. These parts were very large in comparison to the microchip that came from 1985. Okay that makes sense.

P3
The Doc is stuck in 1885 with Clara after he sends Marty home. How in the heck did he get/make the parts for a new time machine to meet up with Marty? He was complaining that he couldn't even make gasoline for the Delorean in 1885. The level of tech in 1885 would have made it very hard for him to build a new machine. I would have expected it to take decades for him to await the invention of decent tech or even if he had to invent the tech himself.

Jim the old guy wrote:Hmmm. Really good question, Sam. I would venture two guesses:

1. The Doc is a genius creator and those types never let e little thing like unavailable parts and fuel get in their way. Remember, he made those explosive logs for the train in just a short period of time.

2. He had that hover-board from the future. Perhaps there were items he could expand and/or use to create new fangled gadgets (OK, poor choice of words) and adapt them to a train engine. Keep in mind this: even tho' he arrived shortly after Marty returned, he had several years to work on his machine, long enough to get married and have two children.

Possibilities, that's all. I'm sure there are others here who could present a more in depth postulation.

It did take him some years to build, because when he met up with Marty he had 2 sons... Now sure how old they were though, certainly not decades though...

So with his knowledge and not being under time pressure from being killed in a few days, I don't see it completely inconceivable that he couldn't do it... The fact that it Flies tells me that he went into the Future before going back to 1985 though... Because I don't care how intelligent the Doc was, I don't think he would have been able to re-create the Hover Technology... But the Flux-Capacitor, which is what makes time travel possible, he created it once, and since we don't really know what it takes to create the Flux-Capacitor he could have done it...


But yes it would be nice to know exactly how he turned the train into another time machine...



Also let me throw this at you... The Doc went back to 1885 in the Time Machine... He put it in an old Mine where Marty and the 1955 Doc fixed it and used it... BUT, Wouldn't the Time Machine that the Doc went back to 1885 still be there when Marty got there???

So my guess would be that the Doc Salvaged the other Time Machine, but decided to turn it into a Train instead... hmmm??? Your Thoughts???

Now some might argue, but if the Doc uses that Time Machine then it won't be there for Marty to use, Yes I would think the same thing, but what Marty already did is now in the Doc's Past, so taking the Time Machine would not affect Marty having come and saving his life...

This is where the problem comes in with Time Travel... I mean think about home Many Time Machines we could end up with in just a few minutes time... Take the time machine and go 10 minutes into the past, just before you left and Boom now there are 2 time machines, do it again now you have 3, and next thing you know you have a fleet of Time Machines...

So you see it would be possible for the Doc to Salvage the Time Machine and not have to worry about any consequences...

Yes that time machine would still be there in the mine where the Doc boarded it up for 1955 Doc and Marty to find.

In the letter that the 1985 Doc wrote to Marty, he said he did not have the parts to fix that Delorean. That's why he buried it because he did not have the technology necessary to fix it and go back to Marty in 1955 himself.

So he said himself that he did not have the tech to fix a mostly built time machine in 1885, but somehow he managed to build a new time machine from scratch??? Remember at the time he wrote that letter, he did not know he was going to get shot. He would have had all the time in the world to work on the problem.

Baf,
The problem with your theory was that if the the Doc salvaged the time machine he used to travel back to 1885 with, he would have had to return it back to the cave when we was done with it so Marty and the 1955 Doc could have found it in the future for Marty to go back. He could not have converted it to a train.

I might believe that somehow over the next couple years he figured out how to fix the Delorean, un-bury it, and travel to the future to get parts for another time machine. Then he could easily build a train time machine, and then put the car back in the cave for Marty to find.

Yes I understand that, but that is now all in Doc's Past... So taking the Time Machine wouldn't affect his future any, because Marty had already came and saved him...

Like I said that is where the problem with Time Travel comes into play...

Wrong Baf, because if he does gone did take that there time majiggy he'll create one a them pesky paradoxes. And Doc wain't none fool.

-Fred

But as we learned in Back to the Future 2, if you screw with the past it immediately ripples forward into the future.

Biff taking the almanac back immediately affected events in 1985.

I Doc was free to mess with the Delorean from the mine as long as he wanted, but in the end he had to bury it for Marty to find in the future. If he neglects to return it, it would cause a predestination paradox and Marty would have been stranded in 1955.

I'll quote another example from Babylon 5. In the show, they always wondered who stole the Babylon 4 space station. They finally find out that it was the crew that time traveled to the past to steal Babylon 4. They were surprised that they had done it. But now it was the present and they still had to go back to make sure they did in the past. If they sat around and said it's already been done, they don't need to do it again then they would have been changing the past.

Yes the craziness of time travel gets messy. You really need to take notes.

Okay fine, he needs to put the Time Machine back in the mine for Marty to find, not really a problem... He still has 70 years before Marty needs to find it in the mine... So he has plenty of time to replicate the necessary components...

And Doc being Doc, he could have created most of what he needed right there in the barn... lol

After just finishing the trilogy again, a couple of things have occurred to me.

1. After Part 1, the power source (nuclear energy?) doesn't seem to really be spoken of. Did Doc convert it over after his visit to the future?

2. In Part 3, when Marty left the time machine in the cave, did it just stay there? Remember, there were 2 delorians in 1855...

Joel wrote:1. After Part 1, the power source (nuclear energy?) doesn't seem to really be spoken of. Did Doc convert it over after his visit to the future?

You don't remember Mr. Fusion, the big white cylinder on the back of the car??? When he comes crashing into Marty's drive way he starts taking trash out of the trash cans...

Doc: Quick Get In the Car.
Marty: Doc What are ya doin?
Doc: I need fuel. {as he is putting the trash into the engine}

Joel wrote:2. In Part 3, when Marty left the time machine in the cave, did it just stay there? Remember, there were 2 delorians in 1855...

That is basically what started this conversation and inspired this thread... There is debate as to whether or not it would cause any time paradoxes... The Time Machine needs to be in the Cave in order for Marty to find it in 1955 so he and the 1955 Doc can repair it and Marty go back to 1885...

I say that once Marty has gone back and Saved Doc, that Doc could salvage the Time Machine and make the Time Train... But because I didn't say anything about the Time Machine being put back in the Care, Same and Fred are arguing the point that it wouldn't be there for Marty to find in 1955...

But Doc's past was already saved by Marty in Doc's time of 1885, so how would things really end up being if doc had ripped the Time Machine apart to make the Time Train and the Time Machine never ended up in the Cave for Marty???

But I say that Doc could have Salvaged what he needed from the Time Machine to copy or replicate the parts for the Time Train and then put the Time Machine back in the Cave for Marty to find...

But I find it hard to believe, regardless of how intelligent Doc Brown is, that he would be able to create circuit boards and processor chips and whatnot in 1885... I mean there is only so much a person can do with the available materials at hand in that time period...

Oh, I dunno. I launched my first satellite last year, and I made it with just old socks, crazy glue, a cup of lemon juice and some bits of chainlink fence.

-Fred

Disclaimer: I may have exaggerated the launch somewhat. And the materials used. And the fact that I made a satellite. And that I spent last year doing anything of scientific interest.

Fred Buer wrote:Oh, I dunno. I launched my first satellite last year, and I made it with just old socks, crazy glue, a cup of lemon juice and some bits of chainlink fence.

I see one major flaw in your setup here... DUCT TAPE... If you had Duct Tape in there then I would have believed you...

You guys are forgetting doc's explanation in the second one about how when time ripples forward, the other time line gets destroyed.

So him taking the time machine shouldn't affect it because it is from the alternate future 1955.

The only person that experiences a change is the time traveler from the original universe. In this case, it is Marty. Once he returns to 1985, doc taking the time machine should not affect anything, because like baf said, it is in Marty's past.

That time machine in 1885 is from the alternate time line that has now ceased to exist, or exists in a parallel universe.

This is actually true if you look at it from a quantum mechanics standpoint.

What strikes me as fantastic, however, is that 1985 is now 25 years ago.

Roll that bad boy around on your tongue for a bit. Twenty. Five. Years.

-Fred

What's scary is that the future was 2015 in BTF2. We are almost there and no flying cars or hoverboards in sight.

You want to know something else that's funny... Both Michael J. Fox and Christopher Lloyd both look almost exactly the same as they did 25 years ago...


Yeah I think I'm about ready for the flying cars... We still got 4 years to make it happen... lol

Bafitis wrote:

Joel wrote:1. After Part 1, the power source (nuclear energy?) doesn't seem to really be spoken of. Did Doc convert it over after his visit to the future?

You don't remember Mr. Fusion, the big white cylinder on the back of the car??? When he comes crashing into Marty's drive way he starts taking trash out of the trash cans...

Doc: Quick Get In the Car.
Marty: Doc What are ya doin?
Doc: I need fuel. {as he is putting the trash into the engine}

I remember it and I know that the Mr. Fusion is a source of power but HOW is it a substitute for what was required in Part 1?